日本語訳
Speaker 0 | 00:00.128
ようこそ、今日のディープダイブへ。今回は『戦争と平和』を取り上げます。
でも安心して、全部を読むわけじゃないから。
Speaker 1 | 00:08.194
ああ、よかった。
Speaker 0 | 00:08.755
めちゃくちゃ長いからね。
今日は小説そのものや、その影響、そしていろいろな翻案について触れていくよ。面白い話題が満載さ。
準備はいい？この本にまつわる興味深い事実に触れて、トルストイの傑作が残した遺産を探っていこう。
Speaker 1 | 00:20.484
いいね。
Speaker 0 | 00:21.585
『戦争と平和』は最初から一冊として出たわけじゃなく、連載で出されたんだ。
1865年から1869年にかけて部分ごとに発表された。次の話を待つなんて想像できる？今で言えば、新作のドラマ配信を心待ちにする感じだよね。
Speaker 1 | 00:48.585
その待ち遠しさは半端ないね。当時の読者は次の章を心待ちにしたんだろうね。
Speaker 0 | 00:58.332
トルストイは名ストーリーテラーだったから、分冊公開はさらに人気を高めたんじゃないかな。
Speaker 1 | 01:04.375
確かに。
Speaker 0 | 01:05.776
さて、この作品、キャラクターがものすごく多いのは有名だよね。
Speaker 1 | 01:10.238
そうだね。
Speaker 0 | 01:11.159
登場人物は559人以上もいるんだよ。
Speaker 1 | 01:12.920
追うのが大変だね。
Speaker 0 | 01:14.681
物語というより、数百人の人生を織り込んだ大きなタペストリーみたいな感じだよね。
Speaker 1 | 01:19.704
そうそう。トルストイは彼らの内面や動機、複雑さまで描き込んでる。それがこの小説を魅力的にしているし、ロシア社会の様々な階層を通して当時の大きな歴史的変革も映し出してる。
Speaker 0 | 01:45.390
当時はフランス語がロシア貴族社会に大きな影響を与えていたよね。
Speaker 1 | 01:58.853
そう。登場人物は個人的なドラマを抱えつつ、同時に社会内部の文化的な緊張にも対処している。言語の使い分けが社会階層の違いを示すんだ。あるキャラはロシア語とフランス語を自在に操るけど、他の人は追いつくのに苦労する。この言語面で社会的ダイナミクスが見えてくるんだ。
Speaker 0 | 02:14.485
なるほど、それは単に歴史的大事件だけじゃなく、それらが個々の人生や交流をどう形作るかってことだね。
Speaker 1 | 02:23.318
まさに。言語が社会階層を映し出す一面もあってすごく興味深い。
Speaker 0 | 02:29.212
次に、『戦争と平和』の翻案について話そう。ほぼあらゆる世代が新しい形でこれを再解釈しているようだね。
最初の映画化は1915年。映画が生まれてからそう経たない頃だよ。
Speaker 1 | 02:46.127
そんなに早いんだ！残念ながらその映画は現存してないけど、それだけ小説のインパクトが大きかったってことだよね。
Speaker 0 | 02:52.612
そうだね。1960年代にはソ連で4部作の超大作映画が作られた。
その時代の政治的状況を考えると、その翻案がソ連の公式的な歴史観に影響を受けたかもって想像しちゃうよね。
Speaker 1 | 03:12.981
確かに。それがどこまで忠実で、どこまでプロパガンダ的だったのか気になるところ。
Speaker 0 | 03:13.901
そう、すべての翻案にはその時代や政治的背景が反映される。
それからテレビのミニシリーズや最近のポール・ダノ、リリー・ジェームズ主演のドラマもあるし、ブロードウェイミュージカル「Natasha, Pierre & The Great Comet of 1812」なんて作品もあって、トニー賞で12部門ノミネートされたんだ。
Speaker 1 | 03:49.592
それはすごいね。
Speaker 0 | 03:50.592
何世紀も前の物語が、現代でもそんな評価を受けるなんてすごいよね。
Speaker 1 | 03:52.914
そのブロードウェイミュージカルの成功は、この小説の感情的な力を物語ってる。
歴史大作というだけじゃなく、喪失、野心、意味の探求といった普遍的なテーマが詰まっているから、人々の心に響くんだ。
Speaker 0 | 04:03.401
そうだね、それはどの背景の人にも共鳴する。
Speaker 1 | 04:05.883
『戦争と平和』への関心はロシア国内にとどまらないんだ。
Speaker 0 | 04:09.085
日本の漫画版だってある。
Speaker 1 | 04:12.307
面白いね。
Speaker 0 | 04:13.028
ロシアの小説が日本の漫画になるってすごくない？
Speaker 1 | 04:17.951
本当だよね。
Speaker 0 | 04:18.816
なぜそんな異文化間の翻案が生まれるのか、不思議だよね。
何が国境を超えるほど普遍的なのか。
Speaker 1 | 04:23.318
その漫画化は『戦争と平和』が文化を超えて訴求力を持っている証拠だよ。人間の経験は普遍的で、トルストイはそれを見事に描いた。
Speaker 0 | 04:37.186
19世紀のロシアが舞台だけど、人間関係、苦悩、意味の探求という要素は、どんな時代や文化でも共通するんだね。
Speaker 1 | 04:45.591
19世紀ロシアで書かれた小説が、全く違う時代や文化の読者にも響くなんてすごいことだよ。
Speaker 0 | 04:57.547
本当にそうだね。僕たちは違うけれど、人類共通の人間性を共有しているんだと感じさせてくれる。
Speaker 1 | 05:02.612
それが深いポイントだね。
Speaker 0 | 05:04.153
そのテーマをもっと掘り下げれば、『戦争と平和』の魅力やインパクトがより明確になるはず。
Speaker 1 | 05:10.879
19世紀ロシアが舞台の物語が、今でもこんなに強いパワーを持っているのは本当に不思議だよね。
時代や文化を超えて、それもトルストイの人間性への洞察が優れているからだと思う。
彼は登場人物を飾らずにありのまま描いたから、読者は彼らをリアルに感じられる。
Speaker 0 | 05:30.456
たとえばアンドレイ公爵は最初理想主義的で野心的だけど、戦争や人生の現実を知って揺さぶられていく。その過程は感情のジェットコースターみたいだよね。
Speaker 1 | 05:46.983
一方、ピエールは愛おしいけどちょっとドタバタしてて、常に生きる意味を探してる。
Speaker 0 | 05:54.962
ピエール、いいよね。常に何かしらの人生の目的を求めてる。
Speaker 1 | 05:57.524
そうそう。彼は時々おかしな決断をするし、つまずくこともあるけど、最終的には自覚的になって成長していく。
Speaker 0 | 06:06.250
両者とも特権階級の出身なのに、人間的で時代を超えた悩みを抱えてる。愛、喪失、信仰、人生の目的…
まるで友達が人生に悩む姿を、壮大なスケールで見ているような感覚だよ。
Speaker 1 | 06:18.859
そうだね。また、トルストイはロシア社会が変化する時代を描き、階級や家族、伝統が人々の生き方をどう形作るかも示している。
Speaker 0 | 06:27.145
歴史や哲学の入門にもなってる。ナポレオン戦争といった大事件を背景に、その影響を受ける個々の人生を見せてくれる。
Speaker 1 | 06:37.714
トルストイは「歴史は日付と戦闘だけじゃなく、その中にいる人間の物語が大事なんだ」と言いたいんだと思う。
Speaker 0 | 06:44.199
その通り。トルストイは「偉人が歴史を動かす」という単純な考え方に疑問を投げかけていて、むしろ偶然やつながりを強調してるんだ。
Speaker 1 | 06:56.093
面白い視点だね。
Speaker 0 | 06:58.135
ナポレオンのような大人物ですら、大きな流れの一部に過ぎないと示唆してる。
Speaker 1 | 07:04.821
まさに。『戦争と平和』が現代の読者をも惹きつけるのは、こうした歴史観の奥深さや複雑さにあるんだろうね。安易な説明を許さない、歴史の混沌を見せてくれる。
Speaker 0 | 07:17.491
じゃあなぜこれが大事なのか？19世紀ロシアの作家が言ったことなんて現代人に関係あるのかと思うかもしれないけど…
Speaker 1 | 07:23.275
実は意外と関係あるんだよ。ナポレオン時代の戦争はないけど、今も紛争や変化、人生の意味探しは続いている。『戦争と平和』はこれら普遍的な人間経験を見つめ直す手がかりになる。
Speaker 0 | 07:38.743
トルストイは人間性の鏡を突きつけ、良い面も悪い面も見せる。悲劇の中にも希望を描いているんだ。
Speaker 1 | 07:47.968
そうだね。トルストイは愛や思いやり、人と人とのつながりが、困難な時代にこそ力を発揮することを示してる。それは時代や文化を超えた強いメッセージだ。
Speaker 0 | 08:03.401
それこそが、『戦争と平和』が今も多様な形で生まれ変わる理由だろう。人がつながりや意味、希望を求める限り、この物語は生き続ける。
Speaker 1 | 08:21.226
どの翻案が作品の本質を一番よく捉えているかって？正解はないと思う。映画のスケール感が好きな人もいれば、ミニシリーズの親密な描写が好きな人もいる。それぞれが違う側面を強調してるから、好きな形で楽しめばいいんだ。
Speaker 0 | 08:39.839
その通り。正解はなく、自分が共鳴できる形を選べばいい。
もちろん、原作を読む勇気があるなら、それもいい経験になるよ。
長いけど、その価値はある。
Speaker 1 | 08:49.165
そうだね。読破は大変だけど、豊かな報酬が待ってる。
時間がなければ、漫画版もいい手だ。手軽に楽しめるから。
Speaker 0 | 09:03.311
いろんな形で再解釈されてることが、『戦争と平和』の力を示してるよね。
最後に、考えてみてほしい。なぜ『戦争と平和』は今も世界中で共感を呼ぶのか？
普遍的なテーマなのか、あるいはナポレオン時代とロシアの独特の雰囲気が人を惹きつけるのか。
Speaker 1 | 09:22.973
考えがいのある質問だね。きっと両方だと思うよ。
普遍的な人間の苦悩を、歴史的背景が際立たせているからこそ、昔の話なのに今にも響く。
Speaker 0 | 09:32.702
そうだね。それにトルストイは、大きな歴史的出来事と個々の人生を絡めながら、小さな選択の積み重ねが大きな流れに影響することを示している。
壮大な視野とミクロな視点の両立が、『戦争と平和』を特別なものにしているんだ。
Speaker 1 | 09:48.770
そうそう。私たち一人一人の人生が大きな歴史と結びついてるってことを考えさせられる。
Speaker 0 | 09:55.963
だからこそ、この作品は今も relevancy（関連性）を失わない。
歴史が目まぐるしく動く現代、私たちは圧倒されがちだけど、『戦争と平和』は大きな出来事に囲まれた中での人間性を思い出させてくれる。
Speaker 1 | 10:10.675
そうだね、混乱の中で意味を探す助けになる。
Speaker 0 | 10:14.719
困難な時代でも、人とのつながりが希望を与えると示してくれる。
これは時代や文化を超えて重要なメッセージだ。
Speaker 1 | 10:20.824
日常の中で、人との結びつきや人間の強さが輝く瞬間を見逃さないようにと教えてくれる。
Speaker 0 | 10:28.129
暗い状況でも、希望を見出せる、と。
Speaker 1 | 10:33.572
いいメッセージだよね。
Speaker 0 | 10:34.552
本当に。
映画のポスターを目にしたり、あのブロードウェイミュージカルの音楽を耳にしたとき、人は物語が持つ力を思い出すんだ。
人々をつなげ、考えさせ、感情を揺さぶり、私たちは皆人間だと気づかせてくれる。
Speaker 1 | 10:50.758
それが物語の本質だよね。
Speaker 0 | 10:52.039
そう。もし興味が湧いたら、『戦争と平和』にもっと踏み込んでみたらいい。映画でも、漫画でも、原作でも。
Speaker 1 | 10:55.621
映画を見たり、漫画を読んだり、思い切って原作を読んだりしてみて。
Speaker 0 | 11:00.305
発見はたくさんあるよ。
今日はここまで。歴史や哲学、漫画まで話が広がったけど、探求はまだ続く。
自分なりに考えて、この古典の魅力を見出してみて。
Speaker 1 | 11:13.996
次回まで、引き続き深く潜っていこう。
Speaker 0 | 11:15.857
読書も視聴も鑑賞も、楽しんでね。
英文テキスト
Speaker 0 | 00:00.128
Welcome to your deep dive today. We’re tackling war and peace. But don’t worry, we’re not reading the whole thing.
Speaker 1 | 00:08.194
Oh, good.
Speaker 0 | 00:08.755
It’s a lot. Yeah. It’s dead. We’re going to kind of look at, you know, the novel itself and like its impact, how it’s been adapted, all sorts of fun stuff like that. I like it. So get ready for some fascinating facts about this book.
Speaker 1 | 00:20.484
Awesome.
Speaker 0 | 00:21.585
And explore the legacy of Tolstoy’s masterpiece.
Speaker 1 | 00:26.089
It’s really amazing how war and peace has like…
Speaker 0 | 00:29.212
gone beyond just time and cultures yeah we’re gonna uncover why that is right why it speaks to so many people yeah okay so first off war and peace wasn’t like one book it was released in pieces oh between 1865 and 1869 so like you know think about waiting
Speaker 1 | 00:48.585
for the next part of the story i can’t imagine that anticipation waiting for the next installment yeah that’s wild like we wait for a show to drop right or something exactly yeah
Speaker 0 | 00:58.332
Tolstoy was a master storyteller. And like releasing it in parts like that must have made it even more popular. Oh,
Speaker 1 | 01:04.375
yeah, definitely.
Speaker 0 | 01:05.776
Okay. And speaking of massive, this book has a lot of characters.
Speaker 1 | 01:10.238
It does.
Speaker 0 | 01:11.159
Over 559.
Speaker 1 | 01:12.920
So many people to keep track of.
Speaker 0 | 01:14.681
Right. It’s more than just a story. It’s like a whole tapestry of hundreds of lives.
Speaker 1 | 01:19.704
Absolutely. And he really develops those characters so well. He delves into their thoughts, their motivations. their complexities and that makes the novel so compelling and through this vast cast of characters he’s able to explore different facets of russian society yeah from the aristocracy to the peasantry during a period of like immense historical change right so it’s during this time when like french
Speaker 0 | 01:45.390
language yeah was like heavily influencing the russian aristocracy absolutely so you have these characters yeah right navigating like their own personal dramas yeah but also having to deal with these cultural tensions within their own society.
Speaker 1 | 01:58.853
He uses language to subtly highlight the differences between social classes. So like some characters can switch effortlessly between Russian and French, while others are struggling to keep up, which reveals the complexities of their social dynamics.
Speaker 0 | 02:14.485
I never thought about it like that. Yeah. It’s like more than just the big events. Yeah. It’s how those events are shaped. Yeah. By individual lives. Right. And their interactions. Exactly. It’s really interesting how language can reflect the social hierarchy like that. But let’s talk about how War and Peace has been adapted. It seems like every generation finds a new way to reimagine it. That’s true. Like the first film adaptation was 1915. Wow. It was a few years after. Yeah. Like the birth of cinema.
Speaker 1 | 02:46.127
So early. Yeah. It’s sadly lost to us now. But it just speaks volumes. The impact that the novel had.
Speaker 0 | 02:52.612
Yeah. And then fast forward to the 1960s, we have this huge four part film adaptation. Oh, yeah. In the Soviet Union. It was a big cultural event. Definitely. Considering the political climate at the time. Right. It’s interesting to think about how that adaptation might have been shaped by the official Soviet narrative of history.
Speaker 1 | 03:12.981
It makes you wonder.
Speaker 0 | 03:13.901
You know. Yeah. Was it a faithful adaptation or did it serve? Like a propagandistic purpose.
Speaker 1 | 03:21.857
It’s a topic worth exploring further.
Speaker 0 | 03:23.617
Right. It makes you realize that every adaptation has its own context and baggage. Right. But it didn’t stop there. Then we have like TV miniseries, a recent one, even starred Paul Dano and Lily James. Oh, wow. And then there’s the Broadway musical. Yeah. Natasha Pierre and the Great Comet of 1812. Love that one. Which was nominated for 12 Tony Awards.
Speaker 1 | 03:49.592
That’s incredible.
Speaker 0 | 03:50.592
Pretty amazing for a story that’s centuries old.
Speaker 1 | 03:52.914
The success of the Broadway musical really shows the novel’s emotional power. It’s not just a historical epic. It’s about loss ambition, the search for meaning, all these things.
Speaker 0 | 04:03.401
And they resonate with everyone. Right. No matter their background.
Speaker 1 | 04:05.883
And this fascination with war and peace isn’t just limited to Russia either.
Speaker 0 | 04:09.085
Right. There’s a Japanese manga adaptation of this novel.
Speaker 1 | 04:12.307
Really interesting.
Speaker 0 | 04:13.028
That’s so cool.
Speaker 1 | 04:13.828
Yeah.
Speaker 0 | 04:14.449
Why would a Russian novel be adapted into a Japanese art form?
Speaker 1 | 04:17.951
Yeah. I know.
Speaker 0 | 04:18.816
Makes you wonder, what about it crosses those boundaries? What makes it so relatable?
Speaker 1 | 04:23.318
The manga adaptation shows that war and peace has an appeal that goes beyond cultures. It’s a testament to how the human experience is universal. Yeah. And Tolstoy captured that so well in his writing.
Speaker 0 | 04:37.186
That’s just about Russia in the 19th century. It’s about human relationships and struggles and searching for meaning during tough times.
Speaker 1 | 04:45.591
It’s amazing to think that. A novel written in 19th century Russia can resonate with audiences in a completely different Culture and time.
Speaker 0 | 04:57.547
It really is. It makes you think that. You know, despite our differences, we share that common humanity.
Speaker 1 | 05:02.612
Absolutely. That’s a profound point.
Speaker 0 | 05:04.153
Yeah. And that’s something we’ll continue to explore as we go deeper into the themes and impact of war and peace.
Speaker 1 | 05:10.879
It’s fascinating how like a story set in 19th century Russia can still be so powerful today. I know. Like across different cultures and times. It really speaks to Tolstoy’s insights into human nature. He was afraid to like… Show his characters with all their flaws. Right. And that makes them feel real. Yeah. And relatable even today.
Speaker 0 | 05:30.456
Totally. Like Prince Andre. He starts out so idealistic, you know, ambitious. Yeah. But then like he gets hit by the reality of war. Right. And life in general. Right. His journey is like a roller coaster of the notions and self-discovery.
Speaker 1 | 05:46.983
And then there’s Pierre. Yeah. So endearing but often like. Bumbling around.
Speaker 0 | 05:54.962
I love Pierre. He’s always searching for meaning.
Speaker 1 | 05:57.524
Yes. Always searching for purpose. He makes like questionable choices sometimes, stumbles along the way. But ultimately, he grows and becomes self-aware.
Speaker 0 | 06:06.250
Yeah. I love how both of these characters, even though they come from privilege, they feel so human. Their struggles are timeless. You know, with love loss, faith, purpose. It’s like watching friends figure out life. Right. Like on a grander scale.
Speaker 1 | 06:18.859
Exactly. And Tolstoy also shows us Russian society at a time of change. He explores class family, tradition, how they all shape people’s lives.
Speaker 0 | 06:27.145
It was like a crash course in history and philosophy. At the same time, we see the big stuff, like the Napoleonic Wars, but also how it affects individual people.
Speaker 1 | 06:37.714
It’s like Tolstoy’s saying, history is more than just dates and battles. It’s about the human stories within those events.
Speaker 0 | 06:44.199
You’re right on. Tolstoy was asking big questions about history itself. Yeah, he was. He challenged the idea. They’re like great men. are the ones that shape events. He focused more on chance and interconnectedness.
Speaker 1 | 06:56.093
It’s a really interesting perspective.
Speaker 0 | 06:58.135
Right. It’s kind of humbling. Even someone like Napoleon, with all his power, was just one part of something bigger.
Speaker 1 | 07:04.821
Exactly. And that’s one of the things that makes war and peace so fascinating for people today. He makes us think and look beyond simple explanations. He shows the nuances of history, the messiness behind it all.
Speaker 0 | 07:17.491
So why does this all matter? Why should our listener care? about what this 19th century Russian author is saying.
Speaker 1 | 07:23.275
Well, Tolstoy’s insights are surprisingly relevant today. We might not be fighting Napoleonic wars, but we still deal with conflict and change and trying to find meaning in life. War and peace gives us a way to look at these enduring human experiences.
Speaker 0 | 07:38.743
It’s like Hostoy. He’s holding up a mirror to humanity. Yeah. Showing us the good and bad. Yeah. And even with all the tragedy, there’s still hope in the story.
Speaker 1 | 07:47.968
That’s a good point. Tolstoy focuses on
Speaker 0 | 07:50.606
power of love and compassion and connection even when things are tough he shows how human connection can help us be resilient and give us hope it’s a powerful message that goes beyond cultures and time and it’s a big reason why war and peace keeps getting adapted and reinterpreted it speaks to this deep need for connection for meaning for hope even when things are hard we’ve talked a lot about adaptations but where do you think the story’s essence is best captured is in the films the miniseries The musical?
Speaker 1 | 08:21.226
That’s a great question. And I don’t think there’s one answer. Each adaptation is unique and highlights different parts of Tolstoy’s work. Some people might like the big spectacle of the films. Others might connect more with the intimacy of a miniseries. It depends on the person and what speaks to them.
Speaker 0 | 08:39.839
I love that. There’s no right or wrong answer. It’s about finding what you connect with. And hey, if you’re feeling brave, you can always try reading the original book. Yes. I know it’s long,
Speaker 1 | 08:49.165
but… Don’t let the length scare you. It’s a rewarding journey full of rich characters and ideas. But I get it. Not everyone has time to read a 1,200-page novel. If you want an easier start, try the manga adaptation. It’s fun and engaging.
Speaker 0 | 09:03.311
It’s so interesting to see how War and Peace has been reimagined. It shows how powerful the story is. As we wrap up, I want to leave you with a question. Why does War and Peace still resonate with people worldwide? Is it the universal themes or is it something about? the Napoleonic era and Russia that keeps drawing us in.
Speaker 1 | 09:22.973
Those are great questions to think about. Maybe it’s both. Timeless human struggles set against this historical backdrop. It connects us to the past while also making us think about our present.
Speaker 0 | 09:32.702
Exactly. And maybe it’s also how Tolstoy weaves together individual stories with the bigger events, showing how even small choices matter. It’s like we get this big picture, but then we zoom in. On individual people, that makes War and Peace so interesting.
Speaker 1 | 09:48.770
That’s exactly it. Tulsa was so good at showing us how our own lives are connected. to these bigger historical things.
Speaker 0 | 09:55.963
It reminds us that our choices have consequences.
Speaker 1 | 09:58.645
And those consequences affect everything around us.
Speaker 0 | 10:01.608
And that’s probably why war and peace is still relevant. Yeah. Like we live in a time where history feels fast, things are changing so quickly it’s overwhelming.
Speaker 1 | 10:10.675
Right. But war and peace helps us deal with these big feelings.
Speaker 0 | 10:14.719
It shows us. Yeah. That even when things are hard, there’s still beauty and meaning. Exactly. We just have to look for it.
Speaker 1 | 10:20.824
In those everyday moments. in our connections with people, and in how strong the human spirit can be.
Speaker 0 | 10:28.129
So true. It’s a story that reminds us to look for hope, even when things are dark.
Speaker 1 | 10:33.572
That’s a good message.
Speaker 0 | 10:34.552
It’s a message we can all remember.
Speaker 1 | 10:36.173
So maybe you’ll see a poster for the movie, or hear some of the music from that Broadway show.
Speaker 0 | 10:42.157
And it’ll remind you that stories have power. They connect us, make us think and feel, remind us that we’re all human.
Speaker 1 | 10:50.758
That’s what it’s all about.
Speaker 0 | 10:52.039
And maybe you want to explore war and peace more on your own.
Speaker 1 | 10:55.621
You could watch a movie or read the manga or even read the whole book.
Speaker 0 | 11:00.305
There’s a lot to discover. So that’s it for today. We talked about history, philosophy, even manga. But the exploration doesn’t end here. Right. Keep thinking, keep questioning, and find your own take on this classic book.
Speaker 1 | 11:13.996
Until next time, keep diving deep.
Speaker 0 | 11:15.857
Happy reading, watching, and listening.